What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

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What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:19 pm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324128504578346913994914472.html#


Just read it.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:38 am

Pretty much common knowledge that most of that electric power comes from coal fired power plants. I guess only the near sighted trendy people are just now starting to figure out theres no such thig as free energy

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:43 am

Though i ddnt know the production of electric cars produced over twice the amount of emissions as that of conventional cars. 30,000 lbs worth? Damn

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Bryant on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:27 pm

Thats making several assumptions that may not be valid. Not all parts of the country are powered by coal or oil. Its possible to produce and power these vehicles without using significant amounts of high-emissions power sources.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:01 pm

Not economically enough, or in quantites sufficient. And 80% of us electric power comes from coal

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:16 pm

I think the article is pointing to the energy used to actually produce the car as compared to a regular car. Also disposal of spent batteries is brought up.

_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Bryant on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Pun wrote:Not economically enough, or in quantites sufficient. And 80% of us electric power comes from coal

True, but thats geographically controlled. California uses very little coal for energy production (we also have very little coal on the West Coast). While half our power is generated by natural gas, just under half is produced through low-to-no emission processes.


These numbers are from the state of California for the year 2010. Home and commercial rooftop solar power generation is more popular now than it was three years ago, so I'd expect the numbers to be shifted more from nat gas to renewable.


Natural Gas 53.4%
Nuclear 15.7%
Large Hydro 14.6%
Coal 1.7%
Renewable 14.6%


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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:01 am

Well if we want cheap plentiful energy, id expect us to go more to nat gas, being that were the saudi arabia of nat gas. Because any kind of practical replacement for fossil fuels, if we ever develop one, i think is still up to 50 years away. Now we can make progress with renewables, sure, but the technology isnt there right now, and imo its way too early to try to truly go green. So were gonna need that nat gas, especially as all the "easy oil" gets used up and it becomes more and more expensive to get at the rest

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:00 am

Bryant wrote:
Pun wrote:Not economically enough, or in quantites sufficient. And 80% of us electric power comes from coal

True, but thats geographically controlled. California uses very little coal for energy production (we also have very little coal on the West Coast). While half our power is generated by natural gas, just under half is produced through low-to-no emission processes.


These numbers are from the state of California for the year 2010. Home and commercial rooftop solar power generation is more popular now than it was three years ago, so I'd expect the numbers to be shifted more from nat gas to renewable.


Natural Gas 53.4%
Nuclear 15.7%
Large Hydro 14.6%
Coal 1.7%
Renewable 14.6%


I would like to see more residential rooftop solar. That is a more than viable solution to cutting down our emissions.

I also like these:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100322/river-current-electricity/

That is just one way to harness the flow of our rivers.

These would be great out in Cali and cut down on the pollution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_updraft_tower


_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:00 pm

Yeah but believe it or not there are environmentalists just as opposed to those river current things as they are against hydroelectricity. Basically, anything mankind does CAN and WILL impact the natural environment to some extent. Course im talking about the baffoons who think we need to kill off most of the human pop on earth, and take the rest back to hunting and gathering. Well, then again theyre not that fond of hunting, so maybe scavenging and gathering. Oh and we have to develop some new organs for processing raw meat cuz fires and air quality concerns and all lol

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:03 pm

I wouldnt have a problem with solar panels being included in the building process and mortgage structuring of new residential construction, but even with tax credits and lower bills, etc, its a large chunk of money up front that takes a while to pay for itself.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:10 pm

Pun wrote:Yeah but believe it or not there are environmentalists just as opposed to those river current things as they are against hydroelectricity. Basically, anything mankind does CAN and WILL impact the natural environment to some extent. Course im talking about the baffoons who think we need to kill off most of the human pop on earth, and take the rest back to hunting and gathering. Well, then again theyre not that fond of hunting, so maybe scavenging and gathering. Oh and we have to develop some new organs for processing raw meat cuz fires and air quality concerns and all lol

Yeah, heaven forbid that a school of shad or Chinese carp swim through those things.......chum the river for miles and miles Laughing

_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:11 pm

They do have a passive louver system though. Those make little to no impact. Output isn't as much, but they are cheaper to make so they may offset.

_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Bryant on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Marconius wrote:
Pun wrote:Yeah but believe it or not there are environmentalists just as opposed to those river current things as they are against hydroelectricity. Basically, anything mankind does CAN and WILL impact the natural environment to some extent. Course im talking about the baffoons who think we need to kill off most of the human pop on earth, and take the rest back to hunting and gathering. Well, then again theyre not that fond of hunting, so maybe scavenging and gathering. Oh and we have to develop some new organs for processing raw meat cuz fires and air quality concerns and all lol

Yeah, heaven forbid that a school of shad or Chinese carp swim through those things.......chum the river for miles and miles Laughing

What happens when one of those massive boulders that the Mississippi carries in bed load makes it to one of the turbines?

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Marconius on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:00 pm

Bryant wrote:
Marconius wrote:
Pun wrote:Yeah but believe it or not there are environmentalists just as opposed to those river current things as they are against hydroelectricity. Basically, anything mankind does CAN and WILL impact the natural environment to some extent. Course im talking about the baffoons who think we need to kill off most of the human pop on earth, and take the rest back to hunting and gathering. Well, then again theyre not that fond of hunting, so maybe scavenging and gathering. Oh and we have to develop some new organs for processing raw meat cuz fires and air quality concerns and all lol

Yeah, heaven forbid that a school of shad or Chinese carp swim through those things.......chum the river for miles and miles Laughing

What happens when one of those massive boulders that the Mississippi carries in bed load makes it to one of the turbines?

Ouch???

Seriously, I don't know much about that, but would think they prolly stay to the main channel. These things can be put out of that channel and still be deep enough to not bother traffic.

Dunno, I may be wrong.

Of course then we have to worry about fridges, cars, old boats, and all that other stuff that comes down the river.

_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:18 pm

You would have to enclose them with closely spaced pilons, devastating the oyster population

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:19 pm

Were on the verge of fusion power, but since fukashima, nuclear is on the enviro hitlist as well, so...

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Re: What?!?! Green Cars are Green?!?! No Way!!!!

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