Fallacy of "Good Government".....long version

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Fallacy of "Good Government".....long version

Post by Marconius on Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:38 pm

I have seen and heard many people over the years claim that government can be a force of good.

Here is the problem with that view:

It is simple really. Government, in a representative or democratic form, is always a reflection of the people it governs. Since that is a truth, if the governed were "good" enough to ensure that government stays "good", then these individuals have no need of government in any way, shape or form. Of course since the bulk of people are selfish and are constantly looking to get a leg up on others, government will never, ever be a force of good.

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Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.
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Re: Fallacy of "Good Government".....long version

Post by Miles1 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:04 am

Marconius wrote:
It is simple really. Government, in a representative or democratic form, is always a reflection of the people it governs.

No, not really. These days, government is a reflection of the people that bother voting. What was the turnout in the last presidential election, around 57%? And given the amount of electoral gerrymandering over the years, and the fact that there's no term limits for congressmen/senators, most of those votes were in states where the outcome was pre-ordained: no matter which way you voted, the same guy was going to win. So, the amount of people whose views/opinions shaped the election was a lot less. I suppose then you could say that the government is a reflection of the apathy of the people it governs: if you don't vote, you get the government you deserve rather than the government you want (or the government you need).

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Re: Fallacy of "Good Government".....long version

Post by Marconius on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:49 pm

Miles1 wrote:
Marconius wrote:
It is simple really. Government, in a representative or democratic form, is always a reflection of the people it governs.

No, not really. These days, government is a reflection of the people that bother voting. What was the turnout in the last presidential election, around 57%? And given the amount of electoral gerrymandering over the years, and the fact that there's no term limits for congressmen/senators, most of those votes were in states where the outcome was pre-ordained: no matter which way you voted, the same guy was going to win. So, the amount of people whose views/opinions shaped the election was a lot less. I suppose then you could say that the government is a reflection of the apathy of the people it governs: if you don't vote, you get the government you deserve rather than the government you want (or the government you need).

Think of it this way Miles, an election is really nothing more than a poll. The active voters are a good representation of the populace as a whole.

As far as Congress is concerned.......we the people allow them rig these elections through redistricting. Therefore they are still a reflection of us. If we do not care about elections and redistricting, then how can we expect them to care about things such as "rule of law"???

Therefore, until such time as we homo sapiens evolve into homo whateverandwhatnot, government will never be a force of good. They may think/try they are doing good, but the ends never really do justify the means. It is impossible to achieve good if the means are not good.

_________________
"If guns are supposed to kill people, then all of mine are defective..."
-The Honorable Ted Nugent

"We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box". -- Ambrose Bierce (1887)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, and they're behind us. They can't get away this time!" -Gen. L. "Chesty" Puller, CO, 1 MARDIV, in Korea surrounded by 22 enemy divisions

Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.
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Re: Fallacy of "Good Government".....long version

Post by Sir Pun on Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:49 pm

But miles youre making his point for him. You dont think it a reflection of our society that most are either too self-absorbed, lazy or apathetic to getting involved or paying attention?

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