The climate change hoax

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:30 pm

But u figure if the science was so settled, that decades of fudging the numbers, and supressing contradictory evidence wouldnt be needed.

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:46 pm

Pun wrote:But u figure if the science was so settled, that decades of fudging the numbers, and supressing contradictory evidence wouldnt be needed.

Neither of those exist.
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Miles1 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:51 pm

Pun wrote:So bryant, if u cant dispute the numbers u attack the credibility of the source?

Why not, seems to be the central plan of the people crying "hoax".... :-p

Luckily:


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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Miles1 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:58 pm

Pun wrote:Actually thTs incorrect. You made the assertion that there was a concensus among scientists there is a concensus on climate change. What i posted shows to the contrary.

And for every contrary post, there's an equal and opposite post... :-p

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:08 pm

Thanks miles for contributing so much. Thats right people, just poo poo it all away because it doesnt fit in with the narratives youre familiar with. Btw bryant, its not global warming anymore remember? They had to change it to the ever ambiguos "climate change."

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:30 pm

Pun wrote:Thanks miles for contributing so much. Thats right people, just poo poo it all away because it doesnt fit in with the narratives youre familiar with. Btw bryant, its not global warming anymore remember? They had to change it to the ever ambiguos "climate change."

Who said I cant use the expression global warming? A quick search of AGU publications shows that the term is still used in publications as an alternative to 'climate change' (climate change can be used as a synonym for global warming, although the reciprocal isn't necessarily true).

Poo pooing because it doesn't fit one's narrative? Isn't that precisely what you're doing?
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Marconius on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:42 pm

Miles1 wrote:


That is not true. Science is only true until such time as something disproves it.

Tell me how many things have been known as fact by the scientific community only to be found false years, decades, centuries down the line??? Off the top of my head, I can think of several. I'm sure if I actually put time into it, I could find thousands.

Pretty much everything we think we know, is only known because our perception of reality is the way it is.

BTW, I really wanted to use this:

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:46 pm

Nice smacky face. And not at all bryant, see i grew up as a product of the indoctrination of pop-culture too. It started out with some positives, but quickly went from save the whales and recycling, to government controlled rationing of energy, carbon credits, and all that other nonsense that hypocrites like al gore spout off about while criss crossing the world on a private jet, and rolling around in gas guzzlers. And ive seen and heard and experienced enough to see through the hype; far more than can be recalled and conveyed here. But thats fine because thats how it is now. The mainstream (which really represents the left to center left, depending) creates this running narrative about political and social issues that permeates all fascets of life. I was watching cars 2 earlier and its a perfect example. Guess who the bad guys were... Yeah a greedy big oil mafia, while the good guys were this "alternative fuel" company. I was like oh come on! Seriously do we really have to go there with kids?

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:33 pm

Pun wrote:Nice smacky face. And not at all bryant, see i grew up as a product of the indoctrination of pop-culture too. It started out with some positives, but quickly went from save the whales and recycling, to government controlled rationing of energy, carbon credits, and all that other nonsense that hypocrites like al gore spout off about while criss crossing the world on a private jet, and rolling around in gas guzzlers. And ive seen and heard and experienced enough to see through the hype; far more than can be recalled and conveyed here. But thats fine because thats how it is now. The mainstream (which really represents the left to center left, depending) creates this running narrative about political and social issues that permeates all fascets of life. I was watching cars 2 earlier and its a perfect example. Guess who the bad guys were... Yeah a greedy big oil mafia, while the good guys were this "alternative fuel" company. I was like oh come on! Seriously do we really have to go there with kids?

Thats all good and fair if I was arguing from popular perception (a fallacy in-and-of itself), but thats not my angle. These things may exist within society, but they exist separate from science.
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:52 pm

Marconius wrote:

That is not true. Science is only true until such time as something disproves it.

Tell me how many things have been known as fact by the scientific community only to be found false years, decades, centuries down the line??? Off the top of my head, I can think of several. I'm sure if I actually put time into it, I could find thousands.

Pretty much everything we think we know, is only known because our perception of reality is the way it is.

Yes and no. We develop models to explain a certain set of phenomena. If our model is good and does what its supposed to it will allow us to accurately predict outcomes based off inputs. When a model is replaced, it is usually because either a new model is able to better expand upon our understanding of that phenomena, or because data was found that could not be described in the initial model. Its fairly rare to see a complete reversal of thought on a widely accepted model (does happen, like with the predecessor of plate tectonics, just isn't that common).

A great example of this is Newtonian physics. Thanks to the work of Einstein and latter physicist we now know that there are some circumstances (like when velocity approaches the speed of light) where Newtonian physics (ie Newton's laws of motion) can not accurately describe phenomena. Does this mean that we throw out Newton's models? No, they still prove useful when dealing with most motion (ie I can calculate how far a ball will fly if I throw it at xº and y velocity using Newton's methods, so long as I don't throw the ball at the speed of light ).

As my adviser likes to say, 'All models are wrong, good models are useful.'
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Sir Pun on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:44 pm

"popular perception (a fallacy in-and-of itself)"

Care to elaborate?

And i think that your assertion the scientific is above politics is just ridiculous when you consider where all the funding comes from and goes toward all this shit. And then of course hipsters all latch on, but of course theres an agenda. I guess ur either in the bubble and dont see the bubble, or ur on the putside and can.

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Miles1 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:02 am

Bryant wrote: so long as I don't throw the ball at the speed of light ).

I think if you could do that you should give up physics and pursue a lucrative career in baseball....

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:53 pm

Pun wrote:"popular perception (a fallacy in-and-of itself)"

Care to elaborate?
Argumentum ad populum

And i think that your assertion the scientific is above politics is just ridiculous when you consider where all the funding comes from and goes toward all this shit. And then of course hipsters all latch on, but of course theres an agenda. I guess ur either in the bubble and dont see the bubble, or ur on the putside and can.

Or there is no bubble. Look, what could possibly falsify your belief in a conspiracy? Certainly, to say nothing would be to loose all credibility.
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Marconius on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:58 pm

Bryant wrote:

Or there is no bubble. Look, what could possibly falsify your belief in a conspiracy? Certainly, to say nothing would be to loose all credibility.

Just because one is paranoid........it doesn't mean they are NOT out to get you affraid

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Had the Japanese got as far as India, Gandhi's theories of "passive resistance" would have floated down the Ganges River with his bayoneted, beheaded carcass. -- Mike Vanderboegh.
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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Sir Pun on Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:48 pm

See, a conspiracy is an actual thing, and people set them up all the time, including as a matter of historical record, the government. A conspiracy theory is something different

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Re: The climate change hoax

Post by Bryant on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:46 pm

Pun wrote:See, a conspiracy is an actual thing, and people set them up all the time, including as a matter of historical record, the government. A conspiracy theory is something different

Then late me state my point more succinctly. What would falsify your belief that there is a conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of scientists on every continent. What piece of evidence would make you say, 'by golly, my view was incorrect?' If nothing can falsify it, then you can't even pretend your beliefs are rooted in reality.
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