Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

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Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:59 pm


                        2012                                                                2013                 
 
About a million more square miles of ocean are covered in ice in 2013 than in 2012, a whopping 60 percent increase -- and a dramatic deviation from predictions of an "ice-free Arctic in 2013," the Daily Mail noted

Arctic sea ice averaged 2.35 million square miles in August 2013, as compared to the low point of 1.32 million square miles recorded on Sept. 16, 2012, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. A chart published Sept. 8 by NSIDC shows the dramatic rise this year, putting total ice cover within two standard deviations of the 30-year average.
 
Noting the year over year surge, one scientist even argued that "global cooling" was here.
"We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped,” Anastasios Tsonis of the University of Wisconsin told London’s Mail on Sunday.

Meanwhile, global surface temperatures have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, according to data from the U.K.’s weather-watching Met Office.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/09/09/arctic-sea-ice-up-60-percent-in-2013/#ixzz2eR2EoIvn
I told you guys that these things happen over and over.  Its Climate change, not Global Warming.  And this has happened for billions of years.
 


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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:09 pm

Dennis324 wrote:
                        2012                                                                2013                 
 
About a million more square miles of ocean are covered in ice in 2013 than in 2012, a whopping 60 percent increase -- and a dramatic deviation from predictions of an "ice-free Arctic in 2013," the Daily Mail noted

Arctic sea ice averaged 2.35 million square miles in August 2013, as compared to the low point of 1.32 million square miles recorded on Sept. 16, 2012, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. A chart published Sept. 8 by NSIDC shows the dramatic rise this year, putting total ice cover within two standard deviations of the 30-year average.
 
Noting the year over year surge, one scientist even argued that "global cooling" was here.
"We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped,” Anastasios Tsonis of the University of Wisconsin told London’s Mail on Sunday.

Meanwhile, global surface temperatures have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, according to data from the U.K.’s weather-watching Met Office.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/09/09/arctic-sea-ice-up-60-percent-in-2013/#ixzz2eR2EoIvn
I told you guys that these things happen over and over.  Its Climate change, not Global Warming.  And this has happened for billions of years.
 


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The person who wrote that is retarded. The cited paper argues that the rate of mean global temperature increase has been constant, not the mean global temperature. While its only one word, the implications are huge. That said, I don't think the article portrays good science. The first line of the executive summary points out that the rate of temperature increase was greater in the 1970's than it has been in the last 13 years, however they're cherry picking a small piece of data instead of looking at the entire trend. If anything, the average rate of temperature increase appears (by eye balling the graph at least) to be greater between 1995 and now than it was from 1970 to 1990.

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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:15 pm

Informative
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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:29 am

I know it doesn't fit the global warming fans agenda, but I think that 1st and 2nd picture looks interesting.

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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:48 am

Dennis324 wrote:I know it doesn't fit the global warming fans agenda, but I think that 1st and 2nd picture looks interesting.
I think the Guardian article I linked offers a good explanation for the differences in ice pack. You can see the same trend in the measured mean annual temperature plots as well.
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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:49 am


Here's a little chart of my own.  It shows the rise and fall in temperatures throughout history based on science.  See the Medieval warming?  the Roman warming?  The Minoan warming?  Were there any automobiles or factories around then?  So why did the earth's temps warm up after the little ice age?



The Roman civilization arose when the earth was much warmer than it's been recently.  And it's no coincidence that just as the earth was entering the 400-year-long "Little Ice Age," the Roman Empire was overrun by the Huns.  The Egyptians also built the pyramids when it was much warmer than today, and the beginning of the industrial revolution coincided with the end of the Little Ice Age.  If global warming is such a problem, doesn't it seem odd that mankind has always flourished during the earth's warmest periods?




And if increases in atmospheric CO2 are the primary cause of warming, why, from the 1940's through the mid 1970's, was the earth cooling when increases in our use of fossil fuels were at their greatest?

And why is it that Mars and Jupiter, and Neptune's moon Titan, have all followed the exact same warming and cooling cycles as the earth during the 20th century?  Does anyone think that our SUVs and power plants are causing the same climate change on other planets and moons in our solar system, or is it more likely that the changes there were caused by the fact that we're all in the same solar system?  I.e., "It's the sun, stupid!"



Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_global_warming_hoax_how_soon_we_forget.html#ixzz2eYne5Xdv



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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:00 am

A leaked report by a United Nations’ group dedicated to climate studies says that heat from the sun may play a larger role than previously thought.


“[Results] do suggest the possibility of a much larger impact of solar variations on the stratosphere than previously thought, and some studies have suggested that this may lead to significant regional impacts on climate,” reads a draft copy of a major,
upcoming report from the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).


The man who leaked the report, StopGreenSuicide blogger Alec Rawls, told FoxNews.com that the U.N.’s statements on solar activity were his main motivation for leaking the document.

An estimate from NASA said that solar variations caused 25 percent of the 1.1 degree Fahrenheit warming that has been observed over the past century.
I guess this guy's retarded too eh?

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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:08 am



Solar Activity Affects Earth's Climate In Surprisingly Complex Ways, Scientists Say
 
By: Charles Q. Choi
Published: 01/17/2013 07:56 AM EST on SPACE.com

Even small changes in solar activity can impact Earth's climate in significant and surprisingly complex ways, researchers say.
 
When researchers look at sea surface temperature data during sunspot peak years, the tropical Pacific showed a pattern very much like that expected with La Niña, a cyclical cooling of the Pacific Ocean that regularly affects climate worldwide, with sunspot peak years leading to a cooling of almost 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) in the equatorial eastern Pacific. In addition, peaks in the sunspot cycle were linked with increased precipitation in a number of areas across the globe, as well as above-normal sea-level pressure in the mid-latitude North and South Pacific.
 
"The Pacific is particularly sensitive to small variations in the trade winds," Meehl said. Solar activity may influence processes linked with trade wind strength.  Link
As I said before, I think its the sun that causes all this climate change.

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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Dennis324 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:12 am

Bryant wrote:
Dennis324 wrote:I know it doesn't fit the global warming fans agenda, but I think that 1st and 2nd picture looks interesting.
I think the Guardian article I linked offers a good explanation for the differences in ice pack.  You can see the same trend in the measured mean annual temperature plots as well.
 Both articles claimed that Arctic sea ice extent grew 60 percent in August 2013 as compared to August 2012.  While this factoid may be technically true (though the 60 percent figure appears to be an exaggeration), it's also largely irrelevant.
So the author of the Guardian article admits the truth that Arctic sea ice grew 60% but to him its irrelevant?  Guess it doesn't fit his agenda.  scratch
 
Here's the truth.  Global temps had warmed back in the 1800s until the 1970s
The increase in global temperatures since the late 19th century just reflects the end of the Little Ice Age.  The global temperature trends since then have followed not rising CO2 trends but the ocean temperature cycles of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). Every 20 to 30 years, the much colder water near the bottom of the oceans cycles up to the top, where it has a slight cooling effect on global temperatures until the sun warms that water. That warmed water then contributes to slightly warmer global temperatures, until the next churning cycle.
 
The 20 to 30 year ocean temperature cycles turned back to warm from the late 1970s until the late 1990s, which is the primary reason that global temperatures warmed during this period. But that warming ended 15 years ago, and global temperatures have stopped increasing since then, if not actually cooled, even though global CO2 emissions have soared over this period.
 
As The Economist magazine reported in March, “The world added roughly 100 billion tons of carbon to the atmosphere between 2000 and 2010. That is about a quarter of all the CO2 put there by humanity since 1750.” Yet, still no warming during that time. That is because the CO2 greenhouse effect is weak and marginal compared to natural causes of global temperature changes.  Link
Cool

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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:48 pm

Dennis324 wrote:
Here's a little chart of my own.  It shows the rise and fall in temperatures throughout history based on science.  See the Medieval warming?  the Roman warming?  The Minoan warming?  Were there any automobiles or factories around then?  So why did the earth's temps warm up after the little ice age?



The Roman civilization arose when the earth was much warmer than it's been recently.  And it's no coincidence that just as the earth was entering the 400-year-long "Little Ice Age," the Roman Empire was overrun by the Huns.  The Egyptians also built the pyramids when it was much warmer than today, and the beginning of the industrial revolution coincided with the end of the Little Ice Age.  If global warming is such a problem, doesn't it seem odd that mankind has always flourished during the earth's warmest periods?




And if increases in atmospheric CO2 are the primary cause of warming, why, from the 1940's through the mid 1970's, was the earth cooling when increases in our use of fossil fuels were at their greatest?

And why is it that Mars and Jupiter, and Neptune's moon Titan, have all followed the exact same warming and cooling cycles as the earth during the 20th century?  Does anyone think that our SUVs and power plants are causing the same climate change on other planets and moons in our solar system, or is it more likely that the changes there were caused by the fact that we're all in the same solar system?  I.e., "It's the sun, stupid!"



Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/07/the_global_warming_hoax_how_soon_we_forget.html#ixzz2eYne5Xdv


Sources? None. The American Thinker article cited no scientific studies. So far as I can tell he just BSed those graphs.
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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:55 pm

Dennis324 wrote:
Bryant wrote:
Dennis324 wrote:I know it doesn't fit the global warming fans agenda, but I think that 1st and 2nd picture looks interesting.
I think the Guardian article I linked offers a good explanation for the differences in ice pack.  You can see the same trend in the measured mean annual temperature plots as well.
 Both articles claimed that Arctic sea ice extent grew 60 percent in August 2013 as compared to August 2012.  While this factoid may be technically true (though the 60 percent figure appears to be an exaggeration), it's also largely irrelevant.
So the author of the Guardian article admits the truth that Arctic sea ice grew 60% but to him its irrelevant?  Guess it doesn't fit his agenda.  scratch
His argument, which I find compelling, is that while the arctic sea ice levels are considerably higher than last years it is irrelevant because the current ice pack is within the range of expected variability. Last years miniscule ice pack was an extreme on the trend, an outlier kinda a tune to a 2 alpha variation.

Here's the truth.  Global temps had warmed back in the 1800s until the 1970s
The increase in global temperatures since the late 19th century just reflects the end of the Little Ice Age.  The global temperature trends since then have followed not rising CO2 trends but the ocean temperature cycles of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). Every 20 to 30 years, the much colder water near the bottom of the oceans cycles up to the top, where it has a slight cooling effect on global temperatures until the sun warms that water. That warmed water then contributes to slightly warmer global temperatures, until the next churning cycle.
 
The 20 to 30 year ocean temperature cycles turned back to warm from the late 1970s until the late 1990s, which is the primary reason that global temperatures warmed during this period. But that warming ended 15 years ago, and global temperatures have stopped increasing since then, if not actually cooled, even though global CO2 emissions have soared over this period.
 
As The Economist magazine reported in March, “The world added roughly 100 billion tons of carbon to the atmosphere between 2000 and 2010. That is about a quarter of all the CO2 put there by humanity since 1750.” Yet, still no warming during that time. That is because the CO2 greenhouse effect is weak and marginal compared to natural causes of global temperature changes.  Link
Cool
Except thats not what the data shows us...
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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:08 pm

Dennis324 wrote:
A leaked report by a United Nations’ group dedicated to climate studies says that heat from the sun may play a larger role than previously thought.


“[Results] do suggest the possibility of a much larger impact of solar variations on the stratosphere than previously thought, and some studies have suggested that this may lead to significant regional impacts on climate,” reads a draft copy of a major,
upcoming report from the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).


The man who leaked the report, StopGreenSuicide blogger Alec Rawls, told FoxNews.com that the U.N.’s statements on solar activity were his main motivation for leaking the document.

An estimate from NASA said that solar variations caused 25 percent of the 1.1 degree Fahrenheit warming that has been observed over the past century.
I guess this guy's retarded too eh?
The only thing credible in that post was the NASA link, which if followed, argues that the dominant forces in global warming are greenhouse gasses.

From the NASA article:
"For the last 20 to 30 years, we believe greenhouse gases have been the dominant influence on recent climate change," said Robert Cahalan, climatologist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md."

“Over recent decades, however, we have moved into a human-dominated climate that some have termed the Anthropocene. The major change in Earth's climate is now really dominated by human activity, which has never happened before."

""Greenhouse gases block about 40 percent of outgoing thermal radiation that emanates from Earth," Woods said. The resulting imbalance between incoming solar radiation and outgoing thermal radiation will likely cause Earth to heat up over the next century, accelerating the melting polar ice caps, causing sea levels to rise and increasing the probability of more violent global weather patterns."

So to answer your question, yes. He cited NASA in an attempt to glean some of their credibility, however the article actually contradicts his argument. I called the author of the original article a tard for not knowing what the word 'rate' means. He argued that average global temperatures were not changing, however the article he cited said that the rate of change was stable (ie we are warming at a consistent speed).
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Re: Arctic sea ice up 60 percent in 2013

Post by Bryant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:12 pm

Dennis324 wrote:

Solar Activity Affects Earth's Climate In Surprisingly Complex Ways, Scientists Say
 
By: Charles Q. Choi
Published: 01/17/2013 07:56 AM EST on SPACE.com

Even small changes in solar activity can impact Earth's climate in significant and surprisingly complex ways, researchers say.
 
When researchers look at sea surface temperature data during sunspot peak years, the tropical Pacific showed a pattern very much like that expected with La Niña, a cyclical cooling of the Pacific Ocean that regularly affects climate worldwide, with sunspot peak years leading to a cooling of almost 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) in the equatorial eastern Pacific. In addition, peaks in the sunspot cycle were linked with increased precipitation in a number of areas across the globe, as well as above-normal sea-level pressure in the mid-latitude North and South Pacific.
 
"The Pacific is particularly sensitive to small variations in the trade winds," Meehl said. Solar activity may influence processes linked with trade wind strength.  Link
As I said before, I think its the sun that causes all this climate change.
The problem is that solar output variability alone fails to explain the amount of heating experienced in the last 50-100 years. Your NASA link even argued as much. Try this link. I doubt you'll find the cite friendly, but they do an excellent job of backing up their claims with data and peer reviewed science (usually directly linked in their arguments). Don't take their word for anything, check their sources.
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